Navigation Tree

General discussion about the media server. Feature requests. Hints, tips and tricks.
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jocmoe
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:51 am
AV Hardware: Western Digital My Book Live, Twonky 5.1.7
Olive 4HD

Navigation Tree

Post by jocmoe » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:58 am

Hi there,

i have running a Western Digital My Book Live with Twonky 5.1.7 and an Olive 4HD Music Player.
Everything run very well, but I have only one big problem with the navigation tree.

In every tree, the songs are sorted alphabetically, but I want them sorted by track number.
What must I change in the xml Files for only this requirement?

Thanks for your help,
Jochen

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Briain
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Re: Navigation Tree

Post by Briain » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Hi

It should only happen in the folders container as opposed to all the containers. You can change the folder container (in view.definitions.xml) to add the album track sort order term to it.

Original container:

<container name='byfolder' id='music/folders' class='object.container.storageFolder' createClass='object.item.audioItem.musicTrack'>
<container buildon='res' createClass='object.item.audioItem.musicTrack' class='object.container.storageFolder' />
</container>

Revised to include both album sort and disk sort orders:

<container name='byfolder' id='music/folders' class='object.container.storageFolder' createClass='object.item.audioItem.musicTrack'>
<container buildon='res' sortcriteria='+pv:numberOfThisDisc,+upnp:originalTrackNumber' createClass='object.item.audioItem.musicTrack' class='object.container.storageFolder' />
</container>

Bri

jocmoe
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:51 am
AV Hardware: Western Digital My Book Live, Twonky 5.1.7
Olive 4HD

Re: Navigation Tree

Post by jocmoe » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:51 pm

Hi Brian,

thank you, I am not good in Linux, I installed Putty on my W7 Client and enabled the Port 22 at the NAS.
With Putty I can login, but then I have no idea how to change the xml file.

Can you help me with a short step by step agenda?

Thank you and best regards,
Jochen

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Briain
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Re: Navigation Tree

Post by Briain » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:57 pm

Hi

Probably the best thing to do is to look at my instructions for changing the trees in a Qnap. Though the file will be in a different place, it shows you how to log in using PuTTY and also outlines the basic Linux commands you'd need to change the tree files (though in your case, you only need change that one view.definitions.xml file). To find where it is on your own type of NAS, the easiest thing would be to type find -name view.definitions.xml and that will show you the path to it. Using my Qnap instructions but with your path, you should find it really easy. I think you'll have to join the Linn forum to see the pictures in that post, but that should only take a few seconds to do.

The post can be found here and there are even links to custom trees (that folks are using with larger music collections). These can be used on any NAS, but save your own current ones somewhere first (in case you prefer them).

Hope that helps
Bri

jocmoe
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:51 am
AV Hardware: Western Digital My Book Live, Twonky 5.1.7
Olive 4HD

Re: Navigation Tree

Post by jocmoe » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:25 am

Hi Brian,

thank you very much, I think i can change the trees now and when I get this from a Linn Forum it is great.
I listen with a Classik Music and Olive 4HD and like the Classik very much and also tested Sneaky.

Best regards,
Jochen

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Briain
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Re: Navigation Tree

Post by Briain » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:47 am

Hi Jochen

I've not heard the Classik for a good while, but I do have a Sneaky (as well as a Majik DS-I and a Klimax DS) so loads of streaming goes on here! :)

I'm not familiar with the MyBook, but I was talking to a Linn dealer who wanted to change trees and he found how to access it using SSH and PuTTY and sent me the link to the information (I've not read it myself, but I believe the info is there okay).

As to the custom trees, I really ought to write up a document describing their use, but the best way is for folks to just try them and find out what's hidden in there. As well as the simpler containers (menu items) that I normally use every day, I have included things like a very comprehensive genre menu section in the custom trees. For example, this would mean a classical music listener can select -Genres- from the main menu, then select the 'Classical' genre and you are then presented with the below sub menus:

-Album Artists-
-Track Artists-
-Composers-
-Albums-
-List Tunes-

That means you can select -Composers- from the above list and you will be presented with only the classical composers, so it's actually a genre filter (to hide all non classical composers) you have applied. When you then select the composer you wish, you are presented with the below sub menus:

-Album Artists-
-Track Artists-
-Albums-
-List Tunes-

So if you'd selected Beethoven, then selected -Albums- from the above list, you get a view of all the Beethoven albums.That means you have used a genre/composer/album menu (as described above) but as you can see from the above list, there are also a genre/composer/artist and genre/composer/tunes routes (and as can be seen above, you also have genre/composer/albumartist, but that's only there in the albumartist version of the tree packs).

That is one of the more complex containers (menu routes) and the others are much less fussy, but it does give a means to navigating by filtration. Of course, the hassle is that you have to have all your tagging in great order to make it work well (I use multiple genre entries, so I use things like 'Classical,Classical - Piano,Chilled,High Resolution and the album appears in all these categories. I've also included a -Composer- menu in the main one (so you don't have to apply the genre filter) as that suits collections where the genre tagging needs some work (i.e. normal collections).

As to me, I'm more a Trip-Hop, Reggae, Rock (and everything else) fan, but I do actually use the above routes when I'm looking for classical stuff.

Bri :)

jocmoe
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:51 am
AV Hardware: Western Digital My Book Live, Twonky 5.1.7
Olive 4HD

Re: Navigation Tree

Post by jocmoe » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:22 pm

Hi Brian,

at first a only want to test the minimal changes from your first post.
But I have another question is the following:

My Music is ripped in folders for every disc, so for example the "K&D Sessions" you can find the first disc in a folder "K&D Sessions CD1" with tracks from disc 1 and a second folder called "K&D Sessions CD2" for the tracks on disc two.
So I think that I do not need to add +pv:numberOfThisDisc, only adding upnp:originalTrackNumber is necessary.

I this right?

Best regards,
Jochen

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Briain
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Re: Navigation Tree

Post by Briain » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:34 pm

You are indeed correct, but leaving the disk number term in there does absolutely no harm. I'm fact, I guess it could even prove useful in the highly unlikely event that you accidentally forget to separate them when ripping a double album. :)

Actually, I never use folder view, but now that I'm typing about it, I think I noticed that one of the previous Twonky 6 versions ignored the disk sort term in folder view, so I must have a quick check to see that it still functions in 6.0.34; I'll do that tomorrow and report back (just in case anyone else is interested).

Bri

jocmoe
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:51 am
AV Hardware: Western Digital My Book Live, Twonky 5.1.7
Olive 4HD

Re: Navigation Tree

Post by jocmoe » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:03 am

Hi Brian,

before you write the answer, I hope you can help me with my last questions (Twonky Server 5.1.9).

- I am not shure how to copy the orginal files to windows, which directory is mounted via Samba for this?
- Will the add for the Track sort in view-definitions.xml make an sorter change in every view?
- When I have changed the xml Files, are there any other todos and are the changes saved when I reboot the NAS?
- Do you have good navigation trees for 5.1.9, I rip with DB Poweramp to flac, the CD covers are called Folder.jpg ?

Tank you very much and greetings to scotland!
Jochen

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Briain
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:07 pm
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Re: Navigation Tree

Post by Briain » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:48 pm

jocmoe wrote:Hi Brian,

before you write the answer, I hope you can help me with my last questions (Twonky Server 5.1.9).

- I am not shure how to copy the orginal files to windows, which directory is mounted via Samba for this?
- Will the add for the Track sort in view-definitions.xml make an sorter change in every view?
- When I have changed the xml Files, are there any other todos and are the changes saved when I reboot the NAS?
- Do you have good navigation trees for 5.1.9, I rip with DB Poweramp to flac, the CD covers are called Folder.jpg ?

Tank you very much and greetings to scotland!
Jochen
Hi

1.

You'd have to first copy the revised view.definitions.xml somewhere onto the MyBook (for example, to the share that has your existing media). You'd then have to log in to the device using SSH or telnet and find the path to that file you just copied (using the command find -name view.definitions.xml will find both your new and the existilg file locations. You'd then have to navigate to the folder where the existing view.definition.xml file lives. You'd then use the command copy -i /path/to/new file/view.definitions.xml .

The space and dot in the above means 'to here' so the above means 'copy the new file to here'. I don't know the MyBook at all, so I can't really help you with file locations etc; maybe look at the MyBook forum. It is also worth a quick look at the www for info on basic Linux structures (and basic commands) if you want to gain a better idea of the typical layout of Linux devices. I found that extremely useful when I first started poking about in NAS's (it's useful to know as Linux is embedded into all sorts of things).

I believe there are Windows utilities that effectively look like Windows explorer but actually work using SSH and Linux commands. If you are unfamiliar with any Linux commands, that might be a better solution than the above method as you could likely just drag and drop the file from the media share to the /views folder. I haven't used these utilities, but I am aware they exist and many folks do use them.

2.

If you just change the folder container, any view with the 'Folder' menu will be updated.

3.


As to other changes whilst in there: Twonky 5.1 generic media receiver sends art to the CP at 160 pixels, you can select 'Pure Evoke Flow' which (from memory) sends art at about 480 pixels. If you wish art at full resolution, you could also add my replacement transcoding.db file which turns all art transcoding off in Twonky 5.1. This file lives one directory up from the trees (so trees are in /resources/views/ whereas the transcoding.db is in /resources/). If you wish that file, I'd have to email it as there is no facility for me to upload to this forum.

4.

My custom Twonky 6.0.xx tree packs work with Twonky 5.1.xx just as well as they work with Twonky 6. If using one of my custom packs, you have to use it to replace all 8 xml files in /resources/views/ (and not just the view.definitions.xml alone).

Hope that all helps
Bri

jocmoe
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:51 am
AV Hardware: Western Digital My Book Live, Twonky 5.1.7
Olive 4HD

Re: Navigation Tree

Post by jocmoe » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:15 pm

Hi Brian,

let me tell you that your xml files are now in the right twonky folder, I used the "2011_07_AlbumArtist" Files, original there were only be six xml files in my twonky installation, a saved, then deleted all files and put your eight files in the folder.
I let twonky generate a new database and it is up and running.

When I now navigate with my Olive 4HD the Tracks are again sorted alphabetically :(
Do you have any idea with this and which tag is used for the tracknumber, when I look into my flac files in the tag "track" there is for example "1/14" maybe this is the problem.

For the communication between windows and linux I used "FileZilla", very easy and good tool for this operations!

Thanks,
Jochen

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Briain
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Re: Navigation Tree

Post by Briain » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:39 pm

Hi

That is odd. I'd need to ask a few more questions so I can get my head round what's happening:

On your control point, are you seeing the new menu which looks like the below:

-Album Artist-
-Track Artists-
etc...

The reason I ask is that some NAS's immediately overwrite any changes to system files and might considers these files as system files (some Marvell Qnaps do that, but I have found a fix to stop it happening). If you are seeing the new menus, that indicates this is not happening and thus we need to look elsewhere.

If you are not seeing the above menu on your control point, when you use a PC's web browser to look at the Twonky menu (http://your.mybook.ip.address:9000) do you then see the menu as above, and if so, do you see the tracks in the correct order?

Assuming that you are seeing the above menu format in both the web view and on your control point, are you seeing the alphabetical sort issue in all containers, or just the -Folder- one? In other words, if you select -Albums-, do they show in album sort order in that container or not?

Sorry for all the questions, but there are a number of things that might have happened (I've never used a MyBook) so the answers to some of the above questions will give me a much better idea what's happening.

Bri :)

jocmoe
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:51 am
AV Hardware: Western Digital My Book Live, Twonky 5.1.7
Olive 4HD

Re: Navigation Tree

Post by jocmoe » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:55 am

Hi Brian,

I look at my Olive 4HD and see the following menu, the track sort order is alphabetically.
-Album Artists-
-Track Artists-
-Composers-
-Genres-
-Albums-
-Tunes-
-Years-
-Folders-
-Playlists-

When I play the files, the Olive plays the file in the correct track order, but showing the track number information like the alphabetically order. :(
At the twonky http://10.0.0.10:9000/webbrowse I see the same menu, but here are the tracks in correct track order.

Also a problem is, when i put a new album the the NAS, the menu at twonky http://10.0.0.10:9000/webbrowse and Olive look like the following menu, when I now create the database new, the menu is again ok.
-Album Artists-
-Track Artists-
-Composers-
-Genres-
-Albums-
-Albums-
-Albums-
-Albums-
etc....

Hope you can help me and thank you for your help,
Jochen

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Briain
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:07 pm
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Re: Navigation Tree

Post by Briain » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:49 am

Hi

I've seen that repeating albums issue before. It's the sort of thing that happens when you're building custom trees and forget to close a container. I assumed that's all that would cause it, but a few mints ago, someone I was helping had an Arcam media player and he had similar issues when simply deploying my trees (he had more repeating menu items that that). When I put the original Twonky containers back, it helped delay this happening, but the issue reappeared after a few days (possibly he'd added an album). That you are seeing them correctly in the web browser folder container but not in the Olive, and that you are getting similar issues to the chap with the Arcam makes me think that both use the container 0 information (I think that's what it's called) and thus don't like seeing custom containers as well. I'm not sure how this then corrupts things as seen on the web interface (assuming you see the multiple album entries there too) but he tried everything (including lots of his own tree changes) and I tried a few ideas (again tree changes) but we never managed to fix it. He had a large collection and really wanted the alpha grouping that my trees offered (that and and the fact the Arcam couldn't play 'gaplessly') so he eventually gave up on the Arcam and bought a Linn DS instead.

Sorry, but it sounds like it might be the Olive is doing something very similar. Without me having an Arcam or an Olive, it is impossible for me to experiment and find out exactly what these devices are doing. It is odd as I know many hundreds of folk have downloaded my trees (and are using them with all sorts of devices) and I know some Linn dealer's are deploying them in their customers' NAS's, so I know they work (and are stable) for a lot of things and a lot of people, but it looks like maybe Arcam and Olive have done something a little different to everyone else. I wish I could replicate the issue here and try to figure out why it happens, and as soon as I find a local with an Arcam or Olive, I'll offer to loan them a spare Sneaky DS and experiment with their own device.

I think it might be best to return to the Twonky original trees and maybe just add the revised folder sort term to their folder container. I have just done that for someone else, so if you don't wish to edit the trees yourself, please PM me your email address and I'll send you the pack I sent to him and we'll see if that fixes your folder view without causing chaos elsewhere.

Bri

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