PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

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phibertron
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PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by phibertron » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:05 pm

Not a biggy, more of a why isnt it being seen as such
On the PS3 if a stream is not deemed DLNA compliant,
the PS3 add an asterisk next to the file name
I dont have any issues with things not streaming
But why is the PS3 thinking that the streams are not DLNA compliant

Note:
I also see some weirdness in this regards when I look at the url from links presented by twonky

http ://192.168.100.200:9000/disk/NON-DLNA/O0$3$28I924172.mp4
http ://192.168.100.200:9000/disk/DLNA-PNAVC_MP4_BL_L31_HD_AAC-OP01-FLAGS01700000/O0$3$28I921868.mp4

The thing that does not make sense, is that the above links were encoded with the same exact settings
but for whatever the reason,twonky thinks one is dlna and one is not, go figure?
Last edited by phibertron on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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edrikk
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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by edrikk » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:28 pm

I'd love to know the answer to this question as well... It was previously asked, with no response from Rick/Twonky...

http://www.twonkyforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... =compliant

Since TMS is supposed to be a DLNA certified, why does the PS3 state that all items served from it are non-compliant? (via the asterisk next to the file name)?

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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by phibertron » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:54 pm

I think I found out why Twonky is marking some videos as NON-DLNA and others as DLNA-PNAVC_MP4

For example:

I have videos that from the Web gui, the link shows this

http: //ip:port/disk/NON-DLNA/O0$28I876044.mp4

and others that from the Web gui, the link shows this

http: //ip:port/disk/DLNA-PNAVC_MP4_MP_HD_720p_AAC-OP01-FLAGS01700000/O0$28I878348.mp4

In either case they do stream to the PS3 and other devices, thankfully
But the question still remains
What is it that twonky uses to determine if it is DLNA or NON-DLNA?

I ran one of the files that twonly thinks are DLNA and NON-DLNA through MediaInfo

The ones that showed as being DLNA, had a Codec ID of either m4v or isom
If the Codec ID was mp42 then twonky would show it as NON-DLNA

As a Test, I remuxed the following supposed NON-DLNA mp4

General
Complete name : D:\ffmpeg muxer\test original.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 117 MiB
Duration : 4mn 26s
Overall bit rate : 3 669 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2011-01-26 17:34:32
Tagged date : UTC 2011-01-26 17:50:01
Writing application : HandBrake 0.9.5 2011010300

To one that uses isom as the Codec ID
And now the new files is reported as being a DLNA-PNAVC_MP4

General
Complete name : D:\ffmpeg muxer\test remuxed.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 110 MiB
Duration : 4mn 26s
Overall bit rate : 3 444 Kbps
Writing application : Lavf52.53.0

I also did a test on a youtube video downloaded through twonky
just to see what mediainfo showed it as

General
Complete name : D:\ffmpeg muxer\test youtube.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 122 MiB
Duration : 4mn 46s
Overall bit rate : 3 567 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2009-11-23 05:24:24
Tagged date : UTC 2009-11-23 05:24:24
gsst : 0
gstd : 286905
gssd : BADC20987HH1293992851134671
gshh : dfw06s04.dfw06s05.dfw06s10.dfw06s11.o-o.v15.lscache3.c.youtube.com

I haven't made test with the Format profile differences or combinations of Format profile and Codec ID differences
But I can tell you, there is now way in hell, that I am going to go and remux all of my videos to fix this
Maybe there is something that twonky can do in a future version to mark mp42 as DLNA when appropriate

In any case, I thought this information would be helpful to anyone out there wondering why some show as NON-DLNA from the web gui
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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by phibertron » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:46 pm

In regards to the PS3 showing an asterisk next all files being streamed from Twonky
The PS3 adds an asterisk next to any file name it deems as not DLNA compliant

As previoulsy noted, this has nothing to do with the NON-DLNA or DLNA-PNAVC_MP4
that is reported from the web gui, that is a different issue, but then again...
Also note, that the PS3 is playing the videos fine for me in any case

If I look at the device profile for the PS3
NA:PS3
HH:PLAYSTATION
DB:FIX
XM:DLNA10
XM:DATETIME
XM:NOEMBEDDEDALBUMART
XM:NOBYTES_IN_TIMESEEK_RESPONSE
DL:MP4DLNA
HP:chunked
HP:1.0PROXYRESPONSE
TR:MPEG,JPEGORG,MP4
MT:mpeg,mpeg2,vdr,spts,tp,ts,mpg,mpg-tts video/mpeg
MT:m4a audio/mp4
MT:avi,divx video/avi
TP:MP4,-suppress_amr -add_isom -update_stss
MT:3gp not-supported
obviously the above settings are there for a reason
But there are a couple of things of interest
for ex:

DL:MP4DLNA
TP:MP4,-suppress_amr -add_isom -update_stss

From the head of the clients db, they are defined as such

// DL MP4DLNA force specific MPEG4 settings for PS3
// TP <target name>,<extra parameters> add extra parameters to transcoder

I had made notes previosly on NON-DLNA or DLNA-PNAVC_MP4
and that the files that had a Codec ID of isom were marked as DLNA-PNAVC_MP4
This really struck home when I saw the -add_isom entry
I could be wrong about this, but that tells me a couple things
From using other dlna servers, some of them transcode all mp4's,
as they couldnt deal with the different codec id's
but it looks like twonky found an elegant solution to force the isom
if thats what that line suggests, dont really know
also, these other media servers, are also showing files with an asterisk
but not all of them

The other one that is interesting the MP4DLNA
It just states force specific MPEG4 settings for PS3
not sure what those are, or what could be added or changed

I wonder if there is something else that twonky could add that it might be missing
or alter when streaming to the PS3 that would make it think the file is DLNA
and thus not show ansterisk

The asterisk is really no biggie, just one of those things at the moment
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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by Twonky_Rick » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:57 pm

edrikk wrote:I'd love to know the answer to this question as well... It was previously asked, with no response from Rick/Twonky...

http://www.twonkyforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... =compliant

Since TMS is supposed to be a DLNA certified, why does the PS3 state that all items served from it are non-compliant? (via the asterisk next to the file name)?
I'm passing this info on to our developers now.

If I ever "go dark" on an issue like this in the future, please send me mail at tmm-beta@pv.com. Unfortunately, I don't have time to check this forum as often as I would like. Thanks.

- Rick
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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by phibertron » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:42 am

I couldnt help but notice that there is the following fix in 6.0.32

-fixed: wrong the DLNA content profile for two files from the certification content
(profiles MPEG_TS_SD_50_L2_T and MPEG_TS_SD_EU_T)

I had hoped that there were some other un-noted fixes to the DLNA profile scanner
So I went looking to see if there were any in relation to the problem I described above
No such luck, but...
I did find another peice to the puzzle
I just did an encode the other day, it just so happend to be 4:3 content
And for whatever reason, it shows up as DLNA compliant
The only thing different from this file to any of my other encodes is its 640x480
I had previously noted that if I change the "Codec ID" to "m4v" or "isom"
Then Twonky picks the file that was previously marked as NON-DLNA and see it as DLNA
So its either the Codec ID or the Codec ID combined with resolution
that twonky figures if it is dlna or non-dlna


This one shows up correctly as DLNA

Code: Select all

Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                         : mp42
File size                        : 1.90 GiB
Duration                         : 1h 36mn
Overall bit rate                 : 2 813 Kbps
Genre                            : Drama
Recorded date                    : 1989-01-01
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 18:34:56
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-07 19:18:22
Writing application              : HandBrake 0.9.5 2011010300
Cover                            : Yes

Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Baseline@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC           : No
Format settings, ReFrames        : 2 frames
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 1h 36mn
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 2 682 Kbps
Width                            : 640 pixels
Height                           : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
Frame rate mode                  : Variable
Frame rate                       : 23.976 fps
Minimum frame rate               : 23.974 fps
Maximum frame rate               : 23.981 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.364
Stream size                      : 1.81 GiB (95%)
Writing library                  : x264 core 112
Encoding settings                : cabac=0 / ref=2 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x1:0x131 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=32 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / interlaced=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=crf / mbtree=0 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.80 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=22 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=10000 / vbv_bufsize=10000 / crf_max=0.0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00 / nal_hrd=none
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 18:34:56
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-07 19:18:22
Color primaries                  : BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M
Transfer characteristics         : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients              : BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M

Audio
ID                               : 2
Format                           : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                   : LC
Codec ID                         : 40
Duration                         : 1h 36mn
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 213 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 88.6 MiB (5%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 18:34:56
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-07 19:18:22

Text
ID                               : 3
Format                           : Apple text
Codec ID                         : text
Duration                         : 1h 36mn
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 1 bps
Stream size                      : 567 Bytes (0%)
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 18:34:56
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-07 19:18:22
This one shows up as incorrect as NON-DLNA
The only thing different from the above, is the frame width and height
But when "Codec ID = m4v" or "Codec ID = isom" is used it shows up correctly as DLNA

Code: Select all

Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                         : mp42
File size                        : 1.23 GiB
Duration                         : 1h 40mn
Overall bit rate                 : 1 755 Kbps
Genre                            : Thriller
Recorded date                    : 2009-01-01
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-10 19:14:27
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-10 19:53:18
Writing application              : HandBrake 0.9.5 2011010300
Cover                            : Yes

Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Baseline@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC           : No
Format settings, ReFrames        : 2 frames
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 1h 40mn
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 1 624 Kbps
Width                            : 720 pixels
Height                           : 304 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 2.35:1
Frame rate mode                  : Variable
Frame rate                       : 23.976 fps
Minimum frame rate               : 23.974 fps
Maximum frame rate               : 23.981 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.309
Stream size                      : 1.14 GiB (93%)
Writing library                  : x264 core 112
Encoding settings                : cabac=0 / ref=2 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x1:0x131 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=32 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / interlaced=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=crf / mbtree=0 / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.80 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=22 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=10000 / vbv_bufsize=10000 / crf_max=0.0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00 / nal_hrd=none
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-10 19:14:27
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-10 19:53:18
Color primaries                  : BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M
Transfer characteristics         : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients              : BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M

Audio
ID                               : 2
Format                           : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                   : LC
Codec ID                         : 40
Duration                         : 1h 40mn
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 185 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 92.0 MiB (7%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-10 19:14:27
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-10 19:53:16

Text
ID                               : 3
Format                           : Apple text
Codec ID                         : text
Duration                         : 1h 40mn
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 1 bps
Stream size                      : 543 Bytes (0%)
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-10 19:14:27
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-10 19:53:16
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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by phibertron » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:07 am

Almost forgot to add this

Why is this a big deal?

The correctly identified media as DLNA
will correctly report itself as using AVC encodeing as the video codec to the playback device

The incorrect media identified as NON-DLNA
will report itself as using MPEG-4 encodeing as the video codec to the playback device

AVC and MPEG-4 video codecs are two different encodeing techniques
one is h.264 and one is h.263

In another example of why this is important
If you had a folder full of VOB files from a DVD
that had to be played in order
if one of them was incorrectly marked as non-dlna
on certain players that vob would not be played
because of that being marked non-dlna
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10627
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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by phibertron » Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:46 pm

I have been doing some further digging into this issue with version 7.x

I have posted the results here

http://community.twonky.com/twonky/topi ... sification

I still doesnt explain the *
in the titles on the ps3, I think it is still possibly related,
but it is probably more related to how the media is presented to the ps3
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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by Twonky_Rick » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:39 pm

Nice job documenting this. :D

Some more details about [*]. As part of the file scanning process, TwonkyServer uses a watchdog app which monitors the time required to scan media files. If a media file cannot be scanned with a given period of time, TwonkyServer assumes it could be a bad file and adds the file to a 'bad files' list. For all files in the bad files list, TwonkyServer has a simple metadata scanner which just uses the filename and date to generate basic metadata. To indicate a file has only basic metadata and may be corrupt, an asterisk is added to title of the file in question. Keep in mind that this asterisk does not always indicate that a file is corrupt. The file could be fine and the device is just too slow to scan the file in the available time.

Increasing the value of the configuration property ‘maxscantimeperfile’ may resolve the problem if indeed scan time is the issue.
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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by phibertron » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:37 pm

That is very valuable information on how that works, thanks rick
But I thought that was more for twonky media manager, and not the clients?

the ps3 for ex: is doing this on its own based on what is being presented to it
which may be the same reason or not

Ill try and do some playing around with the new information
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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by Twonky_Rick » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:29 pm

Although it's true that TwonkyManager includes TwonkyServer, my comments were related to the file scanner only -- which is part of TwonkyServer.

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Re: PS3 and Web DNLA compliant streaming

Post by phibertron » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:59 pm

So In a nutshell I need a file that is deemed worthy
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