Navigation tree build does not use modified tags

[Louv]

I am using Twonky media server 6.0.30 on a QNAP 419P+.

The navigation tree (Artist/album) seems to be built on metadata that I cannot find anywhere in my Flac files.
For instance: the albun 'Get Rythm' from Ry Cooder had 'Cooder Ry' as text in the artist tag. Consequently, the navigation tree showed 'Cooder Ry'. My other Ry Cooder albums were tagged 'Ry Cooder', so I ended up having two different tree entries: 'Cooder Ry' and 'Ry Cooder'.
In order to correct this, I changed the artis tag of the flac file into 'Ry Cooder' (using Tag&Rename). I expected Twonky to sort the 'Get Rythm' album under the right tree entry, but this doesn't happen. I tried rebuilding the database, restarting the server, but it didn't work Also removing the files, rebuilding the database, restarting the server, restoring the files and finally rebuilding the database didn't work.

To be sure, I deleted the contents of the AlbumArtist tag.
Can someone help me on this? I seem to be out of options.

[phibertron]

I know that there is talk about artist and artiistalbum tags and how certain devices do different things
when one is used and not the other, and vice versa, and even when both are popluated

The files that are showing up different, are the artist and artistalbum tags the same
as the ones that show up correctly?

[Louv]

Yes, all metadata are exactly the same, exept the song titles.

[phibertron]

Yuo that is an odd one

The only crazy idea I would have is, is the database rebuild not rebuilding something
and using leftover data somehow somwwhere

You could actaully delete all the db files in the db folder
and then restart, that would definetly rebuild the database

not saying that it will fix the issue, but...

[Louv]

Thanks for the suggestion. Maybe an odd question: were doe I find this the db directory? On the NAS there is no such thing visible. I configured Windows to also show invisible and system files.

[phibertron]

not sure where on the nas
somewhere in /usr or /var

/usr/local/twonkymedia/twonkymedia/db

/var/twonkymedia/twonkymedia/db

[Louv]

Well I probably miss some basic Unix knowledge; on my Nas I only see the directories that I made myself. The system directories with all pre installed software seem to be hidden. Sorry to bother you with this problem.

[phibertron]

No bother
I just dont own one of these things to tell/show you where/what to do
But I do know that somehow on the nas config gui
there has to be a way to show things from "/"
which would be like c: for ex: in windows

you may have to use putty or telnet to get into these directories
wish I had more to tell you how, sorry

[Louv]

Thanks for the hints.
Meanwhile, I figured out how to manage Linux files via Telnet and found a db directory in /share/MD0_DATA/.qpkg/TwonkyMedia but unfortunately with no db files. The only files in there are called 1.tms.dat, 2.tms.dat etc.

The other thing I found out is, that the removed contents of the albumartist tag returns after a contents rescan and after a database rebuild. This would support your thougt of an incorrect rebuild process. So, I want to look further for the db files you mentioned, in order to test your hypothesis.
Can you give me some more file name info with which I could search my NAS in order to delete them?

[phibertron]

The *.tms.dat files are the database, things are placed a little different in the nas builds for some reason
but those are them
there may be a file called pi.dat also
not sure what it is for though

fyi
I know that for the most part
10.tms.dat is for music
11.tms.dat is for photo
12.tms.dat is for video

the others are for media fusion and stuff

so basically 1.tms.dat through possibly 15.tms.dat

[Louv]

I found them en deleted them all. After that, initiatied a database rebuild, with the same results as before.
I Also uninstalled Twonky Server 6.0.30. After that, Version 5.1 popped up; it was preinstalled on my Nas and could not be removed from the QNAP maintenance tool. This version produced almost the same results; a little bit worse actually. Some artists like Nick Cave, occur four times in version 5.1 and only two times in Version 6.0.30.

What puzzles me, is that the database is built on metadata that existed at file creation time and were changed afterwards and that the old metadata seem to persistently steer the navigation tree building process.
Do you have any other suggestions?

[phibertron]

I'm not the expert on tagging, but...
Here goes my next theories

I remember that there are different versions of tagging like IDv1 IDv2 IDv3
and imagine, say, you had different files tagged with artist, but in different versions
not sure if that is a factor or not

The other theory is that like the version possibility, causing issues
not sure if this is possible, but is there more than one atom for artist?
for ex: @art is usually for artist, not sure if there is another one or not

Hopefully someone can jump in on this thread with more knowledge of the tagging issues
that might be causing what you are seeing, if that's what it is causing it or not

Note:
I just re-read your original post again, to clarify the situation

1. when you change the meta data you are seeing that it sees this change?
2. but you are also seeing the old meta data not going away?

[Louv]

Well, in order to keep all variables equal, I deleted the content of the field 'album artist' of all CD's involved.
After a database rebuild, the deleted contents is restored and the field is filled again.

Originally, the artist name of some CD's was inconsequently spelled. This artist name was in the field 'artist'. I changed the contents to a consequent spelling, but Twonky Server does not use the new content of the field.

Both observations support the hypthesis, that the original data is stored somewhere and re-used to build the Navigation tree. So, I figure that deleting all the .dat files (rm *.dat) was not enough. All these files were rebuilt exactly the same as before.
Is that an answer to your questions?

[phibertron]

yup, something is wrong in dodge, thats for sure

If you had files with no tags, and it is picking up tags on a db rebuild
then yeah, its 1 of two things

1 it is either kept somewhere else, or we are deleteing the wrong db files
2.the files have meta data not being seen by the tagging program, but is being seen by twonky

which one it is, hard to say

[Louv]

Thanks for you suggestions; I found the trigger (not the cause). I unchecked the 'Add ID 3 tag' option in EAC and my problem was over! So, Twonky uses a tag that cannot be seen with Mp3tag or any other tageditor I know.
Thanks for you help!

[phibertron]

NICE!!!

I wonder is it isnt an unknown tag per say , but more of a tag version issue

So what is the program you are using for tagging?
You mentioned EAC
I assume it is Exact Audio Copy
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

[phibertron]

I noticed this from the feature page for EAC

http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.p ... es-of-eac/

•ID3 V1.1 tag editor with drag and drop ability from track listing and CD database browser

Im fairly confident that twonky likes ID3 V2 better than the other versions
There are some mentions of fixes in the version histories of twonky

http://twonkyforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9424